The Iraqi Civil War and US Occupation thread.

[Banned_from_FD]

It was a massive mistake in invade and occupy Iraq.

Hundreds of thousands dead, Millions displaced, the US is now the most hated nation on the planet, a trillion dollars wasted and mostly borrowed money too.

The US will be paying for this war for a couple decades.

Bush is the worst President in US history.

What say you?

[zip.com]

It was a massive mistake in invade and occupy Iraq.

Hundreds of thousands dead, Millions displaced, the US is now the most hated nation on the planet, a trillion dollars wasted and mostly borrowed money too.

The US will be paying for this war for a couple decades.

Bush is the worst President in US history.

What say you?

I say you haven't backed up your allegation of Bush being the worst President in US history EXCEPT to say the Iraq war is a big mistake.

There good statistics and bad ones for any war. The fact that you THINK Bush is the worst president doesn't make it so.

[Ben Kenobi]

Bush is actually one of the better ones. The truly pathetic presidents like Jimmy Carter failed to get re-elected.

[Banned_from_FD]

There good statistics and bad ones for any war.

Show me a good stat for this war?

There has been zero good come out of this debacle.

You want a list about why Bush is the worst Prez, I will start another thread.

Ben, getting re-elected by a very slim margin is no great victory. They used fear and gay-baiting in Ohio to win against a weak opponent. Wait until next year when the GOP resembles the Tories after Mulroney.

[Banned_from_FD]

Here is one of the major debacles created by Bush's occupation.... merceneries out of control:

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[size=18px]Blackwater Faulted In Military Reports From Shooting Scene[/size]

BAGHDAD, Oct. 4 -- U.S. military reports from the scene of the Sept. 16 shooting incident involving the security firm Blackwater USA indicate that its guards opened fire without provocation and used excessive force against Iraqi civilians, according to a senior U.S. military official.

The reports came to light as an Interior Ministry official and five eyewitnesses described a second deadly shooting minutes after the incident in Nisoor Square. The same Blackwater security guards, after driving about 150 yards away from the square, fired into a crush of cars, killing one person and injuring two, the Iraqi official said.

The U.S. military reports appear to corroborate the Iraqi government's contention that Blackwater was at fault in the shooting incident in Nisoor Square, in which hospital records say at least 14 people were killed and 18 were wounded.

"It was obviously excessive, it was obviously wrong," said the U.S. military official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the incident remains the subject of several investigations. "The civilians that were fired upon, they didn't have any weapons to fire back at them. And none of the IP or any of the local security forces fired back at them," he added, using a military abbreviation for the Iraqi police. The Blackwater guards appeared to have fired grenade launchers in addition to machine guns, the official said.

read the rest here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews
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So guys, tell me why outsourcing (part of the war )is a good thing?

[Banned_from_FD]

Bush is actually one of the better ones. The truly pathetic presidents like Jimmy Carter failed to get re-elected.

Tell me, why was Carter pathetic? Keep in mind I was old enough to be following US politics closely when he was Prez.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, getting re-elected by a very slim margin is no great victory. They used fear and gay-baiting in Ohio to win against a weak opponent. Wait until next year when the GOP resembles the Tories after Mulroney.

Care to take a bet on that? I'm game.

[Ben Kenobi]

Tell me, why was Carter pathetic? Keep in mind I was old enough to be following US politics closely when he was Prez.

Well lets see. People routinely cite the Iranian hostage situation as an enormous loss of prestige for the so-called superpower. 15 percent inflation with no gain in real wages. I could go on if you would like. Carter was a terrible president, the worst of the 20th century.

[Ben Kenobi]

The reports came to light as an Interior Ministry official and five eyewitnesses described a second deadly shooting minutes after the incident in Nisoor Square. The same Blackwater security guards, after driving about 150 yards away from the square, fired into a crush of cars, killing one person and injuring two, the Iraqi official said.

The U.S. military reports appear to corroborate the Iraqi government's contention that Blackwater was at fault in the shooting incident in Nisoor Square, in which hospital records say at least 14 people were killed and 18 were wounded.

This is war. Remind me of the Somme and perhaps we will get to real tragedies sometime.

[Banned_from_FD]

Ben, getting re-elected by a very slim margin is no great victory. They used fear and gay-baiting in Ohio to win against a weak opponent. Wait until next year when the GOP resembles the Tories after Mulroney.

Care to take a bet on that? I'm game.

Sure!

A gentlemans bet.

I bet that the Dems win the White House, the House and the Senate.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, you said the result would be akin to the destruction of the Tories.

The american equivalent would be 60 percent of the popular vote, and veto proof majorities in both houses. You game?

[Banned_from_FD]

Tell me, why was Carter pathetic? Keep in mind I was old enough to be following US politics closely when he was Prez.

Well lets see. People routinely cite the Iranian hostage situation as an enormous loss of prestige for the so-called superpower. 15 percent inflation with no gain in real wages. I could go on if you would like. Carter was a terrible president, the worst of the 20th century.

Oh god no, Harding was the worst. Even Republicans admit that. He was very corrupt.

Hostage Crisis

Not sure how you blame Carter for the crisis. Remember none of the hostages were killed, they all came home. Sure it was a loss of prestige but nothing when compared to today.

Inflation was a direct result of the oil embargo which happened before he became Prez. He just had to deal with the aftermath.

Carter was ineffective in many ways but he was a victim of some circumstances that happened before he came to office, or was something out of his control.

[Banned_from_FD]

No, you said the result would be akin to the destruction of the Tories.

The american equivalent would be 60 percent of the popular vote, and veto proof majorities in both houses. You game?

Not to those terms. Only a 1/3 of the Senate seats come up for election and incumbants always have the advantage (even the gay GOP ones ;-) ).

So how about control of the House, and vote proof. The White House and control of the Senate but just shy of veto proof.

[Banned_from_FD]

The reports came to light as an Interior Ministry official and five eyewitnesses described a second deadly shooting minutes after the incident in Nisoor Square. The same Blackwater security guards, after driving about 150 yards away from the square, fired into a crush of cars, killing one person and injuring two, the Iraqi official said.

The U.S. military reports appear to corroborate the Iraqi government's contention that Blackwater was at fault in the shooting incident in Nisoor Square, in which hospital records say at least 14 people were killed and 18 were wounded.

This is war. Remind me of the Somme and perhaps we will get to real tragedies sometime.

Its a Somme-like tragedy if you are Iraqi. Millions of refugees and complete towns turned to rubble. Its bad Ben, real bad.

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh god no, Harding was the worst. Even Republicans admit that. He was very corrupt.

I've never heard a republican say it was Harding. Pretty much all of them say it's Carter.

Not sure how you blame Carter for the crisis. Remember none of the hostages were killed, they all came home. Sure it was a loss of prestige but nothing when compared to today.

After capitulating to Iran. He was hopeless in both foreign and domestic affairs.

Inflation was a direct result of the oil embargo which happened before he became Prez. He just had to deal with the aftermath.

And it ended when Reagan came in. He could have done something, he just didn't know how.

Carter was ineffective in many ways but he was a victim of some circumstances that happened before he came to office, or was something out of his control.

Americans, rightly or wrongly prefer someone who takes action even if they are the wrong action to someone who is out of his league.